Wit & Reason with Dr. Alexis Moreno

In this engaging podcast episode, join host Dr. Alexis as she explores the transition of psychologist, Dr. Jake Knapik from traditional therapy settings to film and TV production environments, focusing on mental health and resilience training. Dr. Jake shares his journey consulting in the entertainment industry and becoming Netflix's first Global Wellbeing Manager. Listen in as Dr. Alexis and Dr. Jake address workplace stress, bullying, and harassment, advocating for mental health resources at work, and the importance of systemic changes for long-term employee well-being. Get practical tips to enhance your mental health and resilience in the workplace and recommendations for further resources.

Resources from the Show

• Access Bystander Intervention Training for the Entertainment Industry 

• Transform Your Production Environment with Targeted Anti-Bias Training

• Equip Your Team to Support and Thrive on Set with Production Specific Mental Health First Aid Training and Certification

Guest

Dr. jake knapik

CLINICAL psychologist, wellbeing and leadership consultant

Jake "Dr. Jake" Knapik, a clinical psychologist, has carved an unconventional path in the corporate world, weaving wellbeing and leadership into his journey in a uniquely compelling way.

Originally based in Los Angeles, Dr. Jake worked with Hollywood's creative talents before shifting his focus to empower these very creatives in the realm of leadership within production and creative companies. This endeavor took him across borders as he collaborated with Netflix on pioneering wellbeing and leadership programs. Eventually, he became a driving force behind Netflix's first-ever global wellbeing strategy, designed to cater to the ever-evolving needs of its employees.

Dr. Jake is now on a mission to share these invaluable insights with companies seeking pragmatic leadership and wellbeing solutions that resonate with high-performing individuals and creative minds. His approach has yielded real results at some of the world's leading companies, and he's ready to bring this practical expertise to your organization.

• Learn more about Dr. Jake Knapik

• Connect with Dr. Jake on LinkedIn

Host

ALEXIS MORENO, PSYD, MA, MS - SHE/HER

PSYCHOLOGIST, HEALTH CORRESPONDENT, Speaker, & Founder

Dr. Alexis (she/her) utilizes the powerful impact awareness, education, & opportunity have on mental health. She mindfully creates fun & supportive experiences for her speaking and media audience and private clients to safely explore their true values, learn new healthy practices, & take action steps toward living authentically.

She has a Doctorate in Clinical Community Psychology, a Master of Arts in Marriage & Family Therapy, & a Bachelor of Science in both Television Broadcasting & Psychology. With over 16 years of experience in media & psychology, she aims to make mental health relatable & accessible for all through her coaching, consultation, & media outreach.

Dr. Alexis provides media, speaking, & mental health consultation services. Book a complimentary consult with Dr. Alexis to arrange services today!

• Learn more about Dr. Alexis Moreno’s services:

  Media Host | Psychology and Wellness Expert | Public Speaker and Corporate Trainer | Engaging Content Creator

• Connect with Dr. Alexis on LinkedIn

Airing Weekdays on 96.3 HD4 DC Radio

Episode Transcription

Dr. Jake: [00:00:00] My journey transitioning from traditional therapy setting, office, one client, into more of a corporate space started when I would consult within productions in the entertainment industry. I was in LA and in a very cliche manner, my clientele happened to be in the entertainment industry. It wasn't something I sought out.

It just happened. But I was intrigued, of course, what would this look like and how would you bring Mental health and resilience training into just high intensity environments, such as a production or a set. And that was my first entry into doing some trainings on it. I think at that time it was really around cultural humility and competency within the workplace.

Dr. Jake: In 2020, there was a, this little pandemic thing that started happening.

Dr. Alexis: Cultural.

And

Dr. Jake: it was, it was a massive life changing event. And at that, now, at that point I was in my wife and I were living in London. And maybe you've had this similar experience, but I think when globally we, we were all faced with. Anxiety and uncertainty and unknown and it just really wreaked havoc on a lot of people's and systems mental health Yeah, and that's when I had a lot of other companies starting reaching out and say, you know, you did this with my friends Oh, and would you mind helping?

Just do some trainings and at the time one of those companies was netflix. And so we did some Trainings very casual dealing with uncertainty like just let's chat up chat it out a little bit and then from there You I think it was the appetite at the time and I think it was also the content was really relevant and it snowballed and it really got to a point where we were working with we, I do that quite a bit [00:02:00] when I speak, I say we, and it's just me, it was just me in my apartment with a button up shirt and shorts underneath because that was the COVID time.

Dr. Alexis: That's the jam, yeah, that's the style. That

Dr. Jake: was the move, that was

Dr. Alexis: the move. So,

Dr. Jake: it was me. Working in different functions of the business, but primarily then I was working with their production HR team. So it's an HR department specific to the productions that we're undergoing, either film or series. And so eventually I was brought on as a full time consultant to figure out how do we return to production by also maintaining psychological safety.

By also introducing the concept of psychological safety, I should reiterate into this. So it's a bit of an opportunity to help producers and heads of departments and different production leadership understand the impact mental health has on the quality of their production. And, and ultimately how, not only from a safety lens, but really from, how are you going to get the best out of, Your entire team, whether that's cast or [00:03:00] crew, really making sure you're talking about and integrating mental health resources into your production.

So. That was a focus. And then

Dr. Alexis: I guess you didn't,

Dr. Jake: yeah, I didn't, I didn't scare people too much.

Dr. Alexis: It was not, yeah,

Dr. Jake: I think people, especially in non-traditional spaces, talking about mental health, especially in the workplace, I think there's initial hesitance, what is this guy going to do? Yeah. What are we about

Dr. Alexis: unleash into this very delicate, delicate ecosystem hanging on by threads here.

We're going to bring in a doctor's and like screw things up.

Dr. Jake: Yeah. Screw things up or introduce things that maybe make companies liable or there's, they're going to talk about things that

Dr. Alexis: a lot of fear and anxiety associated with psych and bringing in psychologists and that's just like individual space, like people are scared and avoidant of like couples therapy or family therapy or bringing their kids into [00:04:00] therapy, let alone like a whole corporation.

Trusting you to come in and start like questioning and almost like challenging their team. Yeah,

Dr. Jake: because it wasn't, exactly. And it wasn't necessarily around org design, it wasn't necessarily around system development or maybe more into that IO space, industrial and organizational site space. It was really around how do we, yeah.

How are we going to build some stronger and more resilient employees to, to make sure that they're really. driving the impact for the business, but also that employee force is able to continue to drive that impact for a prolonged period of time, not in these kinds of short bursts and then they're exhausted or burnt out.

And then employee retention is down and absenteeism is up. And it's a really, it's this constant struggle that a lot of corporations deal with. Yeah. That was the focal point at that time, especially during COVID. And then, um, through the process. I went from a consultant on the production side, and then I was brought in house as Netflix first [00:05:00] full time.

I guess you would say employee when it came to.

Dr. Alexis: What was your title there that you had?

Dr. Jake: I was the global wellbeing manager.

Dr. Alexis: Cool. Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Jake: it was cool. It was an interesting experience. Yeah. Um, at

Dr. Alexis: that point, would you say most of your work was doing trainings or did you get into some more. IOS system, IOS psych system stuff and assessments.

And how did that evolve at that point? Once you became, that

Dr. Jake: was the transition, right? So the, before I went in house in that role, it was a lot of trainings. It was a lot of coaching. It was a lot of just, Hey, this is the issue we're having. So I would say it was more of the prescriptive type of training.

Hey, there's some burnout in this team or this team has gone through. Restructure a reorganize a lot of uncertainty or maybe there was someone who, uh, a team member that passed away and it was a little bit of

Dr. Alexis: kind of grief

Dr. Jake: training and bringing the teams together in that conversation. So that's what initially it was.

But then when you're working [00:06:00] for a global corporation with. Employees from Tokyo to Mexico City, LA, all globally,

Dr. Alexis: you have

Dr. Jake: to become a little more strategic. And so then that was the focal point is, okay, how do we take these resources that we've shown have been really helpful and been positive and have shown quantitatively and qualitatively that this is helpful and the employees are benefiting from it?

Now, how do we scale that? Understanding we're not going to have well being managers in every single office, even though I would try to advocate for that, but it didn't take understand. It's okay.

Dr. Alexis: It's a process.

Dr. Jake: We'll get there. I'm trying. That's for

Dr. Alexis: sure.

Dr. Jake: No, not at all. Um, and that was really where we figured, okay, how do we scale this?

Like, how do we look at the ecosystem that is currently available and where can we integrate these resources so they can live independent of myself and get them into as many different touch points across the employee life cycle as possible, right? So from onboarding to exit interviews, we were making sure that we had different topics and different language integrated into [00:07:00] those moments that had a focus on, you know, Employee well being.

So that was how we figured out a way to scale. And again, Netflix culture, and it's really rooted in high performance, right? There is a focal point on, you're here to do the best work of your life. And if you can't do that, this isn't the place for you.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah.

Dr. Jake: So it's a really, and so talking about well being in a place that champions.

a bit of a little more rough around the edges approach to that topic. There's naturally tension, but ultimately my goal was the same as anyone else, right? Is I do want people to do the best work of their lives, but I want them to be able to do it for the entire time that they're there, not for a moment.

Dr. Alexis: It's a marathon, not a sprint. Exactly.

Dr. Jake: Exactly. I was a long winded answer of what

Dr. Alexis: I was doing. No, I, I, I appreciate that. It definitely gives us some context into what psychologists are, are capable of contributing in our mental [00:08:00] health and overall wellbeing. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And I see, I see a lot of more memes now referencing how much influence our managers or supervisors have over our mental health.

And finally, the recognition that workplace impacts our personal well being, our families, our relationships. We take it home with us, even if we try not to. It's a big part of our adult experience.

Dr. Jake: Yeah, managers have more of an impact on your mental health than your spouse, your physician, or your therapist.

Yeah.

Dr. Jake: The truth. There's now a lot of research that demonstrates that, and that's both ways, right? And I think that's important to note too, is it's either, you can either be enabling somebody's well being or you can be a kind of an agent of chaos in, in, in their well being. Diminishing well being and I think managers and leadership play an unbelievably crucial role in all of this And I think that's where from the work that I do and now that [00:09:00] I do take what I did at Netflix And I'm applying it consulting for other corporations and entertainment companies is helping them understand that it has to come from the people System leaders individual is because I think there's a lot of pressure to put the onus of responsibility on the individual Yes, and if the leader is not capable and the system does not allow for people to take care of themselves What are we doing?

Dr. Alexis: Yeah, that's how it's always been my Frustration with my limitations as like a traditional therapist or psychologist is okay. I'm working with individual And then I'm sending them back out into the world, into this toxic, dysfunctional environment. And there's only so much the individual can do. And let's be real.

There's so many, there's so many factors outside of our personal self and, and brain and makeup and, and behaviors and what's within our control, so many external factors that [00:10:00] are impacting us, like job instability, like, uh, Verbally abusive boss, like people who were bullying and bullying in the workplace or like, and so my brain's okay, how do we make what we do as a psychologist or what I do as a psychologist more effective.

And we have a lot of therapists and psychologists, working in the traditional space on private therapy, not a whole lot yet working in the workplaces.

Dr. Jake: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: How did you come to terms with this? You talked a bit about your, your, uh, professional development. What about for you personally?

Dr. Jake: Yeah.

Dr. Alexis: What was it that you were confronted with that had you, helped you decide that this is the path that you wanted to?

Yeah.

Dr. Jake: I think it was, I, you hit it earlier when you mentioned you work with individuals and then they go back to, you know, Chaos, more or less, [00:11:00] right? So in LA, I worked through a lot of family systems work, and so we would start off with, oh, this 10 year old is struggling, and there's a problem, and their behaviors are all over the place, and very rarely is it just a 10 year old's situation, right?

This is a system, and I think I started learning from pretty young in my career that there's no way That we can have the impact we want to have on this child if we don't bring in the entire system, right? That's family. That's parents. That's schools. That's summer camps That's everybody because we want to make sure that everyone's functioning in the best way possible to help this child Go back to being a child.

That's the goal and I think that applies In the workplace as well. And so when you're looking at those system work, and that was part of my motivation to transition from individual work into more systemic work, because I think it's also getting at a lot of the root causes that a lot of people struggle with, right?

So if we can make healthier workplaces that might reduce someone's anxiety. Let's just say by 10%, and yet someone who's really struggling with [00:12:00] anxiety, a 10 percent reduction is phenomenal.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. That

Dr. Jake: allows them to breathe, that gives them space. So that was the ultimate goal is, okay, how do we start impacting systems?

How do we start impacting more than one, one person at a time? Although that's important and, and can have a massive trickle effect. This was more of my motivation. Let's look at the, how do we take these learnings and bring them into a business? Thanks.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah, and that's something that I was also challenged with is I saw all of our Excellent research and evidence based practices.

And I was like, Hey, cool. Why aren't we applying this everywhere? Especially when you did your research out in these other spaces. It's okay. We know this stuff. Why aren't we using it?

Dr. Jake: Uh, I, and I put some of, I put some of the, that struggled to translate into different places at the feet of our colleagues, I think there are a lot of psychologists that.[00:13:00]

tend to over intellectualize the work we're doing. If we try to make this an access that is not inclusive, that it's one of these things that it can only happen in the confines of this office, and it can only happen on my terms, and this is the way I practice, so if it doesn't fit in your model, then to That's not going to work.

And so I think the goal is to figure out how do we make the learnings of psychology in general more accessible to more people, right? I don't think I think H. R. departments absolutely can benefit from having. Psychologist on staff, right? If you're an HR business partner and you have a background in psychology, you are setting yourself in the business up for exponential success.

You have a different way of viewing the world and human behaviors. And I think there's such a positive in being able to look at it, that if you get your degree or you're practicing psychology, that you can also still practice in, in, in different forums. [00:14:00] We have to stop limiting ourselves. I remember going through grad school.

There was no talk of anything other than. Community mental health or this or working in a hospital working in a prison.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah, what can an individual do to take care of themselves in the workplace, have a cape for themselves.

Dr. Jake: I think it's starting with controlling what you can control. I think it's human nature when you're in a place that's causing tremendous stress and anxiety and you want to try to fix.

The issue, there's a good chance that system needs to be completely overhauled and it might not evolve at the pace in which you need it to evolve at. So it's really in those moments, really prioritizing what you can control. So setting boundaries that are realistic and practical, not I've worked with so many people where they set just unrealistic boundaries.

Like you're not, sometimes you're going to work past six o'clock. So don't say you're only going to work until six o'clock and you're going to just be disappointed when you break that. Boundary that you set. So set realistic boundaries that are obtainable. And so I think what I would do in those [00:15:00] situations, if you're working in a workplace that just, you know, I understand that it's not as easy, just quit and go to a new job.

That's how we have bills to pay. We have children to take care of and parents to take

Dr. Alexis: care of.

Dr. Jake: No, and it's not viable and realistic. So it's, of course, if you're in a place where you're being bullied or you're being gaslit and you're being, I would say, verbally abused, of course, seek the support of mental health professionals, seek the support of someone outside that agency and organization first and foremost.

And then I think it's really, um, I would always go with, when it comes down to, okay, how are we going to manage this? So I would always, I would use the, how I help people understand it's the MUT principle, right? So it's M U T. So it's focusing on me, us, and them. What I mean by that is me is first and foremost.

So take care of how you need to take care of yourself. Right. Just because things are stressful doesn't mean that we just lose all self care and wait for the stress to stop. Cause

Dr. Alexis: [00:16:00] yeah.

Dr. Jake: We don't know when that's going to be.

Dr. Alexis: It seems like it's the hardest time to take care of yourself. Yeah. But that's the most important time to take care of yourself.

Absolutely. Or can be really overwhelming and distressing. And it seems counterproductive to stop and take care of yourself when you're feeling overwhelmed because there's so much to do. But in the long run, there's some supports that like taking those breaks and taking that time for yourself. is going to end up benefiting you and what you're trying to accomplish.

Dr. Jake: And set your expectations, right? Like, it's not gonna, it's not gonna make everything go away and make everything so easy and comfortable. It's, the goal is you're just trying to clear up some of that cognitive and emotional bandwidth so that you can deal with what you need to deal with. So we're looking at this kind of, there's, there's the two tips.

So there's Mutt, me, and then us. So it's take care of yourself and take care of your people, right? Make sure you're, again, that, that extra work call, that extra meeting that you maybe, Are taking and it's gray area. If you need to, or not to [00:17:00] like. If it's, if it's not absolutely necessary, focus on the people around you, right?

Focus on those that really need your attention. And, and, and I think by doing that, that also helps fill your cup back up as well. You're feeling like you're, you're present. So, and then it's them, right? And them is everyone else. So I think sometimes we think that if we focus on them and we get things organized and quiet in the work front, then I can come back and I can take care of those people around me.

And then eventually I can. Go for that walk and take care of myself. And it realistically needs to be the other way around.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. I definitely see a lot. It's a lot more common for people to focus on Tom, them, us, me, like if there's time and if I have the energy and so it's really about flipping that around.

Dr. Jake: Yeah, it's flipping it around and it's also, the other part I would always say is these are one degree changes, right? You're not going to go from [00:18:00] struggling to take care of yourself and set boundaries and to, there's so much that comes with learning to take care of yourself. I think that's the other thing too, is we're not necessarily taught that.

We're not very rarely are adults taught, how do you take care of yourself? It's something that you've learned, or you've been conditioned. And some of us didn't have the opportunity when we were younger to learn that, or we never figured out more adaptive coping skills, right? We figure out when we're teenagers and young adults that, Oh, this makes me feel good.

Those things probably don't work anymore,

Dr. Alexis: right? Or

Dr. Jake: they become counterproductive. So it's these one degree changes and it's ultimately that you're building and you're building new skillsets. So it's not about these radical, massive. Lifestyle changes, right? If you don't exercise at all, take a walk to get your coffee instead of drive.

Dr. Alexis: That's

Dr. Jake: it. That's all you're doing. Slowly build those body movements versus I'm going to start training for a marathon. So you're just starting. That's it. Yeah. Start with little tweaks. And I think that's, [00:19:00] as you, you're building your resilience in that moment to The environment you find yourself in and I've and I think you've noticed I haven't said go talk to HR or I think find your people find the people you can trust in that office and really control what you can control and at the same time protect yourself and understand that at the end of the day.

And I'll just be honest, like, it's, we work for who pays the bills. So it's tough to find those people sometimes in the workplace that you can trust because at the end of the day, are they there to protect me, the individual, or are they there to protect the business? And that's a really tough spot for a lot of people to find themselves in.

So that's why I'm always, if you have outside support, they can help you figure out a way that you can advocate for yourself while also protecting your mental health and protecting your own well being. Job, things of that nature,

Dr. Alexis: building up your community and your support system, 100 percent multiple places there.

There is a place for workplace mentors and supervisors and getting support [00:20:00] from their colleagues. And there's also a place and space for supportive family members or friends or other people within your industry that get it.

Dr. Jake: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm not saying to be don't talk to anybody and don't share anything.

It's just when we're stressed or super anxious and frustrated or angry, sometimes I'm not, those aren't the most productive conversations. So if you build your community and you feel heard from someone from somewhere, then when you're trying to talk to the people that really do need to hear you, it can maybe be a little bit more productive.

So that's more where I was focused at. So focus on you. The kind of the mud principle those one degree changes and I think part of that like you mentioned is also just building your community and understanding that if you are going through those. really challenging experience like workplace bullying, gaslighting, things of that nature.

You're not alone. And there are definitely people who can help you as well as help normalize that experience for you. Not normalize workplace [00:21:00] bullying. We don't want to normalize that. It's more of normalizing that it doesn't. Validating

Dr. Alexis: that it's a legitimate. I think that

Dr. Jake: was the word I was going for.

Validating.

Dr. Alexis: I

Dr. Jake: appreciate that.

Dr. Alexis: Point, let me know if you can answer this question. At what point would you recommend someone reaching out to HR and utilizing.

Dr. Jake: It's such a, it's a tough question to ask because I think there's, it depends on a million variables, but I'll try not to be a psychologist about this answer and actually give a direct answer.

I would say once you have, again, built that community, you feel a little bit more grounded in the reality of what you're going through. I think it's coming. To whether it's your HR representative or your supervisor or someone and it's coming from a place of curiosity and understanding what can we do to get there to make this experience more effective.

So I think it's trying to maintain that neutrality in those [00:22:00] situations is going to be really helpful because it also allows opportunity for feedback and growth from both ends. If that's a culture in which the company believes in, so I think it's actually practices. Yeah. But even then, if you're coming from that place of curiosity and you're asking questions and you're trying to figure out, okay, what's the best way to navigate these situations, ultimately that might create an environment that's a little bit more effective than Coming at it from this is what's happened to me and I want to fix or trying maybe blaming certain people or kind of creating ultimately an adversarial type of conversation.

So I think it's making sure you have a headspace that you can have this conversation and then trying to come at it from this solution oriented perspective. Um, and I, and I understand that's extremely hard to do if you are on the other side of bullying or that you feel that a conversation. Somebody is again, blaming you for something or that they're attacking your character, things of that nature.

I empathize with that. I really do. So that's why I'm saying it's also process that and [00:23:00] kick it to a space where you understand a little bit more how you can go about having those conversations productively.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. And we've been able to talk about building up the resilient resiliency, working with stressors, bullying, any thoughts about like workplace, like a harassment or discrimination and how psychologists and HR can navigate within those systems to support.

workers. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Jake: I think it's, again, it's, it's education and curiosity. You have to be again, HR and leadership. They need to have adequate training and education around harassment as well as diversity, equity, and inclusion in different ways, right? Understanding implicit bias and how that plays a role in so much that leadership engages with.

So I think that's from a systemic level is that. And, and even from an individual advocating for that, like [00:24:00] advocating for trainings and resources. Cause even if you started nothing and you go to some, it's moving in the right direction. So I think that would be the, is, is advocating for some type of training company wide around different levels of harassment.

And I think that could be a good way to start bridging that gap for sure. And I think the other part of it is really. listening as well. I think active listening skills amongst everybody can improve. Yeah. Employees, managers, leaders, C suite level. So I think that's also from an individual standpoint, like really practicing our active listening and understanding what people are truly saying.

I think that, that skill set can really help in moments of that. Harassment or discrimination for sure.

Dr. Alexis: If an incident occurs, are you finding that more workplaces are doing a better job of already having policies and procedures in place so that way people know how to navigate the system [00:25:00] and. Report effectively and have it resolved

Dr. Jake: might have a policy in place, but if it's not a psychologically safe environment, then those policies aren't usually adhered to.

I think it's, I think companies in general, yes, they're doing a better job when it comes to the conversation, when it comes to setting up policies, when it comes to having those reporting and the anonymous reporting structure. So yeah, I think I've seen it in almost every company I've worked with. It's there.

I've also heard from employees that I don't trust that, and I'm not going to use that.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah.

Dr. Jake: So. It's one of those where that, to me, that's the issue is that we haven't created an environment where people feel a, that they don't trust the system that's in place to protect them and also don't trust that they will be heard.

So I think it's one of those where I urge companies to focus on that, right? It's not about. That someone's not utilizing it. They must be broken. It's really around, oh, the system is broken in which this person is trying to function in. So figure it out.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. All [00:26:00] right. I'll figure it out. Try and then nothing happens, or at least from their perspective, that person's still in a leadership role, still causing damage and things were reported and so then targets of this type of abuse then end up just having to leave.

And then their, their career suffers

Dr. Jake: and their development suffers and their mental health suffers. And I think I can and that's where I think authentic accountability is, is. Unbelievably important. And, and I think that's where Netflix had a term that they would say that they, they don't allow brilliant jerks, right?

You could be as good as your job, but if you're rude, if you're disrespectful, if you're any of these things, not a place for you to be.

Dr. Alexis: I love that. I love that low tolerance.

Dr. Jake: I love it. I love it. I also think that the interpretation of the term jerk left a lot of room for interpretation based on who was defining if that was a jerk like behavior versus so it look gray in that sense.

But yeah, I think it holds [00:27:00] a lot of truth in the sense that it ultimately. If, okay, you, as a corporation or as a C suite leader, let's say you're, you care only about the bottom line. That's it. That's all you care about. Your only job is to make the stock price go up and to make more money to go into your pocket.

Okay. This is not going to go on an anti capitalistic rant. I promise. I'll save

Dr. Alexis: that

Dr. Jake: for another time. I

Dr. Alexis: have an argument for those people as well who just care about the line. I'm about to get to that argument and

Dr. Jake: that's the whole point is that, okay, then your talent retention is being. Destroyed because of these people you are spending exponentially more money recruiting and trying to find the replacement And then you're spending six months getting them up to skill because this person who was harassed had to leave to save their mental health Because you're allowing this person to just run rampant that

Dr. Alexis: person's a liability really.

It's a

Dr. Jake: liability You're not and again that

Dr. Alexis: in the last year

Dr. Jake: It's in that sort of, okay. So if money is your [00:28:00] motivation, we can absolutely work with that motivator. Yeah, because this having people in those positions are absolutely destroying your bottom line. And that's if again, that's your motivator, there you go.

And I can point out all the research. And if you're really curious, we can go talk to talent acquisition department and see how much it costs to recruit for that position. We can understand the current field of employees that are coming in, how long it takes to ramp them up. That all can be. Quantified.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah.

Dr. Jake: Same thing with absenteeism, people not showing up to work because they're afraid of their boss and not handing in projects on time because they're afraid of the feedback we can quantify all of that if the company's willing. To know.

Dr. Alexis: Yeah. To do better bottom line. I appreciate you saying all that so much.

we're going to have all of this information listed out on our webpage for this show. What. additional resources because this is a big topic. We went to grad school with this kind of stuff [00:29:00] for people that don't have that time. Yeah.

Dr. Jake: So I appreciate it.

Dr. Alexis: We'll take it. We'll take whatever you can share with us.

Thank you so much.

Dr. Jake: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Alexis: You've been listening to wit and reason on DC radio. Make sure to check out wit and reason.com/dc Radio in order to access all of the resources we mentioned on today's show and to listen to some of our past shows. You could find us wherever you get your podcasts and on social media, including some really fun YouTube videos.

With the handle wit and reason. Let's keep the conversation going.